The Live Video First Method: How Katie Fawkes Embraces Imperfect Action

Chris Stone [00:00:00]:
Absolutely. Alright. So we're thrilled to welcome Katie Fox, the marketing genius behind Ecamm, who's helped countless creators get comfortable on camera and actually enjoy going live. When she's not transforming nervous entrepreneurs into confident video creators, Katie's either crossing The US Canadian border. Hey. She's actually a dual citizen. Collecting eggs from her 11 chickens or enjoying life in her incredibly cool seventeen hundreds home. She also cohosts the VHS Club podcast where she gets to geek out about nineties movies with her best friend as well as the podcast, The Flow, with our pal, Doc Rock, proving she knows a thing or two about creating content people actually love to watch.

Chris Stone [00:00:44]:
Welcome aboard, Katie Fox.

Katie Fawkes [00:00:47]:
This has been the most fun intro ever. So wait. Before we jump into it, happy birthday to Jen, who is also a friend of mine. Oh, cool. I will never be as cool as Jen, but here I am pretending on her on her birthday.

Chris Stone [00:00:59]:
She will make you feel so amazing just being around her. She will tell you she tells you that you're like like, you feel like you could be the president after talk. You do. Yeah.

Katie Fawkes [00:01:09]:
She just is like the sun. She's so sparkly and shiny and wonderful. So happy birthday to Jen.

Chris Stone [00:01:15]:
Well, we're one day gonna have Katie Fox in that intro video. I am, like, I am so far behind in creating an intro video, but I was waiting for you to be on the show, Katie. So now I'll have that video Okay. That I can download from Ecamm, and then I can create a new intro video to have you on it. We're super excited to have you on. Thank you for saying yes and, making our show better today. I I we've watched your content for a a long time and kinda followed this this journey that you've been on, but what really hit me was a, was a talk that you did on Alec Johnson's, event that he did, the digital stage summit that he did. I was really super captivated by it.

Chris Stone [00:01:59]:
So I really wanted to, you know, not steal that. You know? But, but it really I feel like speaks to our audience. We have a ton of people who get stuck doing video, and maybe they're audio only podcasters. And there's all this mind junk that goes in behind, video, and no one thinks about the Live First framework that, that you have. But I wanted to start here if I could, Katie. What is it about live video that you love so much?

Katie Fawkes [00:02:32]:
Oh my gosh. I I think it's the community, and I don't think that I fully appreciated that or realized it when I got it. Well, I know I didn't because I the whole thing was big and terrifying and scary, and I did not want to do any of it. I I did not wanna do any of it. I got ended up here anyway. But what made it a really safe space and what continues to make it just a really incredible space to be in is that unlike a recorded video or, you know, or recording an audio podcast, when you are live streaming your show like we're doing right now, you are welcoming in people from all across the world, some who are, you know, friends and family in real life, and some who you get to know over the span of doing this thing. And it just makes it a safe, welcoming, friendly, fun space. Like, right now, I see awesome with awesome fun things to hang out with us.

Katie Fawkes [00:03:24]:
That's Matt. He's on, like, a ton of my streams. Like, he when I pop up, he's there. Right? And that gives me confidence. It reminds me of the value of what I'm creating, that people are getting benefit from it, and it's just a really nice connection point. So I I think everything that made live video and video production in general so scary was also solved by people just showing up and reminding me that no one is sitting there going like, you know, like, Katie is using the word too many times, or she's not saying the thing in the perfect way she has it written in her head. They're they're here for the value. They're here for the humanity of it.

Katie Fawkes [00:04:05]:
They're here to spend time, And that made it safer and friendlier and and a lot more fun and continues to. I can't imagine doing either of the shows that I do on a regular basis rec like, in a recorded setting because I I feel like it would it would kind of trip up my mind, like, not having people there contributing to the conversation. It would feel much more rigid, which I think would take away a lot of the benefit of it and a lot of the fun behind it.

Chris Stone [00:04:30]:
Speaking of fun, Anna's here in in the house. She's she's she's saying hello to us all. Hello. And, of course, this is the other great thing about live video is everybody gets to talk to each other in the chat. Yeah. Right? And and so when you you talked about community, and and I we do wanna get into community, eventually on this as well because it's a huge part of ECAM, and it's it's amazing. So I'm I'm glad I asked you that question first because you've just basically, like, set the table for us. So so it's it's totally appreciated.

Chris Stone [00:05:03]:
So you started and you started going, and we've heard your story, and you're welcome to get into it. But I wanted to know, like, you know, what was that that video or that moment, that live video where it all sort of clicked for you. Like, now you're now you're going, okay. This is this is my thing. There's community. There's this space or whatever. Was there that one moment or that time where you said, oh my gosh. This is what this thing is about.

Chris Stone [00:05:30]:
I don't have to worry about being scared. I don't have to worry about these things. Was there a video or a podcast or a or a moment that you're recording yourself where it all clicked?

Katie Fawkes [00:05:40]:
I can't think of, like, a specific, like, moment or a particular stream. I just remember, like, I I remember vividly, like, avoiding it at all costs. Right? So, you know, those of you who know my story, I I joined the Ecamm team. The first project right off the bat was we need to start live streaming because we, you know, we make a live streaming tool. Right. And we have access to all these incredible creators who wanted to be on camera, who wanted to, you know, give back and help and contribute. And so I was I was immediately put into this space where not only was I did I need to learn how to livestream and did I need to kinda get over myself and just do it, but I was also, like, on livestreams with the top names in livestreaming and video production. Yeah.

Katie Fawkes [00:06:26]:
So I I do remember, like, I do remember being on the stream with Luria Petrucci from live streaming pros who is, like, incredible, now is a good friend of mine. But, like, just being on the stream with her and being, like, I am totally in over my head. Like, here is this person who has been doing this for years. Like, not only in the live streaming space, but on television. She's done, you know, copious amounts of interviews. She understands the tech in and out. Like, she looks fantastic, sounds fantastic, and I just felt, like, a little bit it a lot of it in over my head. And then again, like, people in the comments started asking questions or talking with each other and, like, sharing their stories or agreeing with what we were saying and finding value in what she was saying.

Katie Fawkes [00:07:10]:
And then I remember her saying on that stream in the answer to a question that had come up that it doesn't you need to sort of get over yourself. Like, it doesn't actually matter. People are not there for you. People weren't there for me. Pee like, people weren't caring what like, not that not that they didn't think that I was a nice person or what have you, but, like, they weren't there to listen to my perspective. I was facilitating a conversation with an expert. They were there to hear what she had to say. They were there to hear about her story.

Katie Fawkes [00:07:40]:
They were there to hear about her journey. They were there to learn with her, to feel connected with her. And I was just facilitating that. And so I think I mean, that was one of many of those moments, but, again, it it came down to hearing someone with that level of expertise say that and also actually seeing that in the chat, seeing people being like, oh my gosh. Like, you know, that was so relevant to me, or thank you so much for doing this, or it's so great to be here today. Like, it just really level set everything for me. It's like, oh, it this it's okay. Like, it it's okay with what happens.

Katie Fawkes [00:08:10]:
People don't people don't care as much as it feels like they do. And I think a lot of it came from I come from a writing background. So for me, it's research, research, research. Write it all out. Read it out loud. Have someone else read it. Do take a look at it again, and then, like, eventually release it, and it needs to be perfect. Whereas live video doesn't need to be perfect.

Katie Fawkes [00:08:34]:
And no matter how much you research or plan or whatever, you're a little bit out of your a little bit of stuff is out of your control. Like, anything anything could happen. You could trip over your words. You might not get out exactly the way that you wrote it down. And that there's a magic in that, and there's kind of a a comfort in that that took me a while to to get comfy with because it's so counter to how I was as a per how I am as a person. I'm definitely a planner.

Chris Stone [00:09:00]:
Wow. And speaking of magic speaking of magic, Awesome Wood Thing says, I see mushroom product on Amazon. I'm adding it to my cart right now. Are you hearing that, Amazon? Thank you. What's amazing? Hey, Matt.

Katie Fawkes [00:09:16]:
I will say, if you are a perfectionist like me, it did it did take a while to get these up because while they are actually as they advertise, like, you you can stick them on and you can peel them off and put them back again, lining up all of the mushrooms. Like, I can even see in the video, like, there's, like, lines over here where it's, like, not perfect. So yeah. It,

Chris Stone [00:09:37]:
took

Katie Fawkes [00:09:37]:
me a while.

Chris Stone [00:09:38]:
That's the Obsbot camera is creating so much detail back there, that that you could see those line. You see what you see how I did this?

Katie Fawkes [00:09:44]:
You see how I did this? You're gonna get rid of this camera. Pull up Amazon. Let's play another one. Let's do detail.

Jim Fuhs [00:09:50]:
Well, and and, you know, Katie, even I had the same problem. So my wall is also peel and stick wallpaper and it's bricks. And so it's that same thing of, like, wait, that's not the right brick. And so thank goodness people can't see the detail because it it, would get me as well. The

Katie Fawkes [00:10:05]:
I knew it was gonna be a problem because my engineer husband with who normally is, like, a complete control freak about he won't let me hang anything in the house. He does not allow me to do any of that. And with this project, he was like, This is all you. Good luck. He was like, There's no way that you're gonna let that just go up without it overthinking it to death and taking it down and putting it back up. He wanted nothing to do with it. He just backed out of the room, closed the door.

Chris Stone [00:10:33]:
So, you said something there, and I kinda I I wanted to double back and underline it a little bit. I think a lot of a lot of creators, when they when they start doing video, they think a recorded video is easier Yeah. Than a live video.

Katie Fawkes [00:10:50]:
I did. Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:10:51]:
And and okay. So so why is it and then how how do we convince someone who's sitting there going, oh, you know, I'll never have a live show like this or you know? And and, of course, some of the people on Ecamm, you know, and and Matt and others and all these show Luria, like you talked about, all these people that use Ecamm, they have I mean, they beat broadcast show level Mhmm. Type type videos. Yep. So people see that because that's that's what's showing up at the top of their feeds. Right? That's what's the algorithm is showing them the best of the best. Right? They're not showing the millions and millions of other people who are maybe just starting. Yep.

Chris Stone [00:11:28]:
How would you how would you address someone who is has not started on video and thinks, like, recorded video is what they wanna do and live video seems so much harder?

Katie Fawkes [00:11:38]:
Yeah. It's a good question. I mean, I will say with a a sort of caveat that if, like, if you really wanna do recorded video, like, video is better than no video. So if, like, if that's the starting place that you're at and it's working for you or you, you know, or you're actually getting video created, great. I am not gonna sell you on changing a workflow that's working for you. But I am willing to bet that there's at least some of you out there that are like me where you know you can record a video. You know you can rock a script, and you can plan to your heart's content. And then the camera turns on, and you stare at it, and you start going through your script, and then you you screw up the line, and then you hit pause or you stop, and then you kinda it out, and then you try again.

Katie Fawkes [00:12:22]:
And you it takes you hours to record a five minute clip, a ten minute clip, a twenty minute, whatever. And, like, I left those experiences just feeling, like, awful about myself. I was like, you know? Like, I thought I was good at this. I I can get up on a stage and give a presentation. I, like, I could do you know, I did years of theater. There was something about the ability of being able to fix it later or pause it and stop it and redo it that gave me permission to get in my head and be a total perfectionist about it, where I was like, oh, that didn't sound good. I'm gonna play that back. Oh, that didn't sound good.

Katie Fawkes [00:13:00]:
I'm gonna and I was never getting anything done. Or if I did, I was then taking all these video files and sitting there going, like, oh, no. Now I have to edit, which which I have no skill at, and, like or send it to someone else, which is gonna be really costly. I don't, like I just want this done and out there into the world, and it it wasn't supposed to be this hard is what I kept feeling and thinking to myself. So the benefit of live streaming or doing, like, recording your video in a live to tape or live streaming mindset or method is that it doesn't give you permission to stop, to hit the pause, to end, to rewatch it and be like, nope. That looks terrible. I'll get around to this tomorrow. I'll do this later.

Katie Fawkes [00:13:44]:
There's a there's just an acceptance that, nope. I you know, there are people watching. I'm just gonna get this done. And I'm willing to bet that once you get going and you have your first thing your first moment of stumbling over a word or it not being exactly how it is in your head and you push through it, you get into the groove, and then you're then you're done with video. And then you can go back. And if you wanna say, okay. I've now watched this twenty minute video, and, actually, like, I do really wanna redo it. Great.

Katie Fawkes [00:14:15]:
But I'm willing to bet you watch that video, and you're like, oh, this is actually fine. That, like, there's nothing, like, so wrong with this that I need to pick it apart in the way that you probably would have if you were caught in that recording process where you're just in your own head. So I Yeah. I do think live can come across as being scarier, but I do think it's an incredible practice space. And the more that you're able to do it and the more that people show up and force you to be consistent with it, like, when people show up, you have to show up. And so you do get kind of those reps in with it, and it it does make you more confident. It makes you more capable. It's easier for me now even to record not perfect.

Katie Fawkes [00:14:54]:
I'm still nowhere near as good as I am live. But I it is easier for me to record videos now. I'm I feel like I'm less I'm less obnoxious with myself about it. I'm like, no. That's fine. I, like, I can hit the pause button for a second, catch my breath, and then say the next line and be and be pretty good with the output.

Chris Stone [00:15:11]:
It almost feels like the the fear of editing is greater than the fear of of filler words. Right?

Katie Fawkes [00:15:16]:
For me. Yeah. Like, I because it's it's a whole job. Like, I feel like sometimes we forget this. It's it is someone's full time actual full job, and, like, and they've learned this skill, and many people have gone to school for it. Like, this is I feel like sometimes we think or assume same with graphic design. Right? We're like, well, anyone can do this. Not anyone can do this.

Katie Fawkes [00:15:40]:
This is a this is a skill that needs to be learned, and it is hard. There are tools that make it easier, but you like, that's not worth my time to be you know I have other things that I'm better at that I should be spending my time at, and that is not one of them. So either I need to spend the the money and hire an editor to do it, which I do for the for the flow that we do for Ecamm Okay. Or not care so much about it and focus instead on getting the content as good as possible to help people and get it out there versus kind of sitting on it and panicking about it and and hoarding it, not actually getting it in front of the people that need to know that information.

Jim Fuhs [00:16:19]:
Yeah. So so, Katie, you you've done you you mentioned the flow. I know you have the VHS, podcast show as well. What what have you kinda learned because you've, you know I think that one probably started, I think, after the flow. What what's your viewpoint as far as do you feel like now maybe you're, like, less scripted? Because like you said, when you're doing a recorded video, a lot of times, like, oh, I gotta have a teleprompter, and I've gotta say these exact words. Where now it's probably like, I have no idea what I'm about to say next. Do you and and how would you encourage people to, like, get over the feeling like they've gotta hit every word and that it's, you know, too important or something or it's gonna mess them up.

Katie Fawkes [00:17:04]:
Yeah. I think there's a few things that go into it. I think having, like, a a passion project or, like, a just for fun project was really super helpful for me. So the the VHS Club podcast, I'm not in it to make money. I'm not in it for anything other than I think it's fun. I love spending time with my friends and, you know, and guests that come on. I love getting to force myself to watch movies every single week. And it also happens to teach me how to be better on camera, build up those, you know, skill sets.

Katie Fawkes [00:17:34]:
And now I can answer questions like, how do you grow a channel from nothing? I now know, like, how to how to do that. I'm not so I'm not faking any of those conversations. I, like, I know what that experience is like, how hard it is, and I feel like I can have authentic conversations with people about it as a result. I think as far as scripting goes, I I do still and Ecamm actually makes this really easy for me. I do plan out and I guess I don't script, but I do plan out and think through if I'm doing, you know, a virtual presentation or a summit or, like, something where it's it's a very limited set amount of time. Which is And I need to hit, you know, I need to hit, particular talking points. I will use Ecamm scenes to plan that out. So I approach it like, each scene is like a slide in a in a PowerPoint presentation or a keynote presentation where it's like, know, these are my first talking points.

Katie Fawkes [00:18:29]:
These are my second talking points. I will build it out that way. I don't do that anymore for podcasts, live shows, interviews like this because I know that I know the content. So there's if I write it all out in advance or I script all that out, I'm doing myself a disservice. I I know this. This is my everyday life. If I don't know how to answer these questions, there's probably an issue. And, you know, in the way that these shows are structured, they're more casual anyway.

Katie Fawkes [00:18:54]:
So for me, it's, there's no value in in overthinking those things. But I I will say I do definitely still plan and storyboard to some extent when I'm doing presentations or workshops or things where there are certain points I know I need to hit. I will have those visual cues. I just don't fully script it out anymore because that would ruin things for me. I think it would make me a little bit crazy.

Chris Stone [00:19:19]:
So, we're gonna get back here to the chat. We've got, tons of people here. Cyrus Webb, I was like this for sure. Thought I couldn't do live in the beginning. Definitely got more comfortable with time. Done is better than perfect.

Katie Fawkes [00:19:33]:
Done is better than perfect. So true, Cyrus. So true.

Chris Stone [00:19:37]:
And speaking of done is better than perfect, our, very own recovering perfectionist himself, Alec, were your ears burning, sir? We talked about you earlier. And, it looks like we everyone is going over and filling their carts on Amazon with the mushroom background. They're they're all loving it over there. This is funny. And then is it, Kira, that says hi and happy Tuesday. So excited for this live. And I'm I'm glad that we touched, on the chat because community is one of the reasons you, just went with the live first thing. You you started to realize, hey.

Chris Stone [00:20:19]:
You know, if I'm having tech problems, all of a sudden these people in the chat are going, hey. Have you tried this with the Rodecaster? Have you have you have you hit this button? You know, jiggle the cord or whatever they're saying. They're hanging out and trying to help you live. Yep. And that's part of, you know, going live in general in that community. But one of the thing that one of the things that I think, you know, is distinctive about Ecamm Live is the community, that that Ecamm has. It doesn't feel like there's a competitive spirit. Right? So you're you were you were started to go on these live streams with these major people who were like, oh my gosh.

Chris Stone [00:20:55]:
This is, like, thousands of, you know, dollars of equipment, and they're like, you know, they've written 10 books and, you know, they're incredible content creators, yet I'm here with this person. You know? They're they're real or whatever, and that can that can feel, like, incredibly intimidating. But these are people that are members of this community that are helping others. I wanted to just kind of, you know, hand the mic over to you and kinda talk about, you know, why that community is important to you and maybe some some examples and some stories around how that community has helped each other.

Katie Fawkes [00:21:29]:
Oh my gosh. Yeah. What can I say about the Ecamm fam? I mean, honestly, like, I wouldn't be here on this show or on any of the shows or podcasts or videos that anyone has seen me on in the last however many years back if if it wasn't for the Ecamm fam. Because, again, from the very beginning, they showed up, and they showed up with, like, such positivity and encouragement and connection. I mean, not only were they on the live streams, but they were in the community saying that they, like, love the videos that I was in. They were they were just cheerleaders throughout. And for no reason, like, they, like, they did I was brand new to Ecamm. Yeah.

Katie Fawkes [00:22:15]:
They did not know me, but they just, you know, they gave me incredible ideas. I was on, you know, calls with them. They gave of their time to be interviewed. They shared resources with each other. I, there is no community out there like them. I have been in so many groups and at so many different events, and there is just really no group like them. And it it really is amazing. And I think in some ways, the certainly, the the pandemic made that, you know, helped to kind of solidify that space.

Katie Fawkes [00:22:52]:
It was really hard, and we needed to be together. And, you know, and video was such an important aspect of connecting and of and of keeping our businesses alive and of, you know, spending time with family and friends. And I I just think, like, in that moment, this group of people, like, rose up, and they, you know, they offered to, like, help each other out. They the amount of, you know, GoFundMe's that we've we've like, I just it's it's just such an awesome, incredible space. And even now, years later, I hear stories every single day of people who were like, this software changed my life. You know, what Ken and Glenn have built, you know, has made such an impact for me. You know, I can't run my business without Ecamm. You know, you guys make such a huge impact, and it, like, it I get, like, chills, and it brings me almost to tears the just what what these two gentlemen have created and what they have built.

Katie Fawkes [00:23:51]:
It's just humbling for me to be a part of it at all, and I just think it's really it's really neat because I often often, I get to be kind of the face out on these interviews, and people are like, what did you do, Katie? I just I just showed up. I showed up, and the group was just so welcoming, and their spirit has really kind of carried through. And we've, you know, we've certainly grown, and we've done a lot of things together as a community. And it's just been awesome to see. And, you know, I'm sure tons going forward at, you know, cool ideas that will come and neat events and everything. But it's it's really cool, the difference that, the difference that having a community makes and the difference that a company that is community minded can do. Like, I'm just so grateful to Ken and Glenn for never saying no about community. Like, there's never a moment where they're like, well, you know, that's a crazy idea, or, like, we should be focused instead over here on selling more subscriptions.

Katie Fawkes [00:24:50]:
Like, they are always about helping people, hearing stories, sharing stories, making a difference, making an impact, and that carries through all the way through into the into the Ecamm family. And I think it's hugely important and, a giant reason why we are as successful as we are. Wow.

Chris Stone [00:25:07]:
Yeah. I just I love that you said they're not they don't I mean, they don't care about subscriptions. They're putting this first. And we've all kind of been around companies or maybe even historically have worked for companies where that is the leading driver and you can absolutely tell. And it's in in, like and it was truly you know, we use this word authenticity or authentic. Like, when you were talking about that, Katie, it's like, it's absolutely a % believable. Right? You know? This is the other great thing about live video. There you were just, like, we don't we didn't plan any of this, folks.

Chris Stone [00:25:44]:
I didn't give Katie a list

Katie Fawkes [00:25:46]:
of questions. I promise.

Chris Stone [00:25:48]:
Yeah. I didn't give Katie a list of questions, but she just gave the most amazing heartfelt testimonial for the people who have have created this thing and why this community is so woven. And if there was you know, you needed any evidence, the chat is, like, like, all I had to do was say Ecamm fam and community.

Katie Fawkes [00:26:07]:
I see.

Chris Stone [00:26:08]:
And you and and, like, you're there's more lurkers. So thank you. Thank you for all of this. I did wanna highlight, one of, one of these by the way, if you're if folks if you're wondering how I'm doing this, and how I'm able to pull all these comments, even from Amazon, it's because I use, I use Ecamm. There's a theme in the show. But Kira says, I think my biggest boundary to live is how to ensure I'm paying attention to my guests

Katie Fawkes [00:26:35]:
Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:26:36]:
And the chat and the tech. But you're right. We just have to try to learn along the way. Katie, so, you know, when you were just starting to do this live video and Ecamm, ladies and gentlemen, like, when you open Ecamm for the first time, it can feel a little daunting. It's kind of like opening up the, you know, the guts of a Tesla or something like that. Sorry for all you Tesla haters, But, you know, it's like, okay. And and so someone who's who's fairly adept at opening software, you just gotta start simple. Right? You gotta you gotta you gotta start and just open up this window, close these other things.

Chris Stone [00:27:10]:
You don't have to do all the things just yet. You gotta start simple. Katie, how did you in your journey, how did you work on, you know, like like Kira is saying here, paying attention to the guests and the chat and the tech, all the stuff that I'm doing right now, but I it's taken me, you know, a long time to be able to to do this and lots of fumbles along the way. But talk to me about how you worked through that, Katie.

Katie Fawkes [00:27:37]:
Yeah. I mean, that you you just said that that's the answer. Like, there unfortunately, there's no way to get there other than kind of fumbling your way through it, pushing the buttons, and seeing what happens. I I will say when I realized that I didn't that I could just be me, that made it way easier on me. I was, again, I was surrounded by I'm still surrounded by all of these incredible creators who are making these, you know, quote, unquote, like, TV quality broadcast quality productions. And I definitely had a moment a few years back where I was like, oh, you know, I I shouldn't do any live streams from home. I should only do them from the studio where it, like, looks way cooler and way, you know, way bigger. Like, I'm representing Ecamm.

Katie Fawkes [00:28:19]:
I need to, you know, I need to, like, really show up. Right? Like Mhmm. And I realized that, like, it in the end, people were actually responding a lot more to me and to the things that I was doing, and it was more relatable when I was just myself, and I was just being really honest and really vulnerable in public about all of it. So when I started thinking about my home studio space and putting up this wallpaper that took me forever, I I actually got to a point where I was like, you know what? Like, it's just me. Doc Rock's not here in the studio with me all the time, so I'm not gonna have a Rodecaster because even though I generally know how to use it, it's gonna stress me out. It's gonna Yeah. Be this cool glowy thing on my desk that I don't entirely know how to use and for what value. So I'm gonna get rid of that.

Katie Fawkes [00:29:10]:
I actually don't need a Sony ZV e 10 camera. I have it. But, like, it's big. It's taking up a bunch of space. You know, there's all these different, like, points of complexity with it. Right? Like, all of the the gear and the equipment, the space you're in, the, like, all of it plays into the end production. So I just simplified way down. I've intentionally only ever used just my laptop.

Katie Fawkes [00:29:34]:
It's an older laptop. It's not even a newer laptop. I don't have another screen because I'm constantly on the go and on the and I wanna force myself to be able to do it as simply as possible and to generally be able to troubleshoot my way through it when something happens because something is always gonna happen. So I I put myself in these boxes where I feel comfy and safe so that I know how to respond if something happens. And I I'm okay with looking down. Like, I'm okay with, like, here's my camera, but I wanna check the the comments. Sometimes I have, like, an iPad over here that I can reference, you know, that has other stuff on. And I think that's fine.

Katie Fawkes [00:30:13]:
Like, I don't think again, that this is not just because we can make it a, like, quote, unquote, perfect television broadcast, doesn't mean that that's what your audience wants or needs. Boom. You need to think through what your audience wants and needs and how you can be your best self. So it's okay, Kiara. You can look at you know, you can talk to your guest and look down. You can reference notes. You can, you know, laugh at at jokes. You can, you know, figure out, like, where the comment is, show the same comment twice.

Katie Fawkes [00:30:41]:
It like, it it's fine. Like, it you'll get better at it and more comfortable, and you'll figure out what really works well for your audience, what you really like. Like, I'm constantly thinking, oh, I could I could add, like, this segment to my show, or I could like, I'm, you know, constantly getting different ideas or figuring out ways to change it up. It's it's an evolving process. The technology is always changing. The the options available to all of us are always changing. So I think it's I think it's fine to kinda go with the flow for for a pun. Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:31:10]:
No. I love I love the fact that you're there's not a one size fits all thing here. There's not one microphone that works for everyone. There's not one camera that works. And by the way, I think there's a thing such as too much eye contact. Like, I I I received constructive criticism, not from Jim on this one, by the way. Yeah. Right? Like like, I've I felt like I was being stared into my soul the entire time you were talking.

Chris Stone [00:31:38]:
Right? And I was like, okay. Now I have to consciously look away. You know? And and so it it's like we're just learning and evolving. It's like, these are things that, you know, let's not get too judgy on someone's gear. Like, you know, because that may be the perfect gear for them that gets them through and delivers their message to their audience, which, by the way, might not be you. Right? And I think we I think we have to we have to be a little bit more, you know, forgiving in in that respect and just kinda say, hey. You know, my voice is not for everyone. People might be joining the show for the first time and be like, who's this knucklehead with the purple thing on his you know, purple doc pop on his you know, or whatever.

Chris Stone [00:32:16]:
I don't know. Whatever. Okay. I'm not for you, you know, Bill or whoever your name is. By the way, if anybody watching name is named Bill, I'm sorry. That was just the first name that came

Katie Fawkes [00:32:25]:
to you. That name earlier today as an example. So you and I were

Chris Stone [00:32:28]:
Bill is a great name.

Katie Fawkes [00:32:29]:
Ups. We're on the same we're on the same wavelength. We're purple and Bill today.

Chris Stone [00:32:32]:
That's right. Yeah. But and and so, yeah, it the shirt, by the way, we we mentioned this in the intro. How awesome. It looks like we've planned this %. Like, we're not lying. We did not say, Katie, wear that grape colored shirt because this I'm having the grape galaxy background for no. That that did not happen.

Chris Stone [00:32:52]:
So

Katie Fawkes [00:32:54]:
We're just that good. We're that good.

Chris Stone [00:32:56]:
Exactly.

Jim Fuhs [00:32:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, Katie, you know, I think one of the things that you talked about is, right, we we gotta progress. Chris and I talk about it. Like, just try to get better 1% every time.

Katie Fawkes [00:33:07]:
100. Yep.

Jim Fuhs [00:33:08]:
Each episode, you're gonna get a little better, And it's not always gonna be in the same area. Right? Sometimes it's gonna be in different areas. But one of the things I I find interesting that you said, and I I sometimes feel like this is potentially the future of lab in some aspects. I think this is where Ecamm has some, great, opportunities is the whole idea of, right, less is more. You know? This equipment coming out. The, you know, the the ops bots, if I said it right, or or even, like, the fact the Shure MV seven plus.

Katie Fawkes [00:33:42]:
Yeah. You

Jim Fuhs [00:33:43]:
can plug it straight into your computer. You don't need to go get a Rodecaster. You can sound amazing. You know, now with everything from, what Starlink has this room that you can pay. I think it's, $50 a month for, you know, 300 megabytes. So so you can almost stream anywhere. Yeah. So now it starts to become the idea of, like, well, what can I do? And the fact that, you know, Chris makes us look incredible.

Jim Fuhs [00:34:09]:
But the truth of the matter is if you go watch your local or national television sometimes, people live streaming look better than these people that are professional. That that's what has happened. And it's, so what what do you what do you see maybe as what would you like to see happen, like, say, in the next couple years that you think would help with live streaming?

Katie Fawkes [00:34:34]:
Oh my gosh. I just I think when it comes to live streaming, it it's just the level of accessibility, like you were saying. Like, it it I remember when I first got to know Doc Rock. He was saying that, you know, he comes from, like, a broadcast background. And this this stuff that we are all, you know, so comfortable now using used to be millions of dollars, and it was gatekeeped behind. Like, you had to, like, go to school for, like, a particular skill set, and then you had to get hired by a company. And then they they had all the equipment, like, at the studio that you had to go into. And, you know, maybe you were, like, one cog within a larger production.

Katie Fawkes [00:35:12]:
And now I can come up to the upstairs bedroom in my home, and I can, you know, have a huge following, and I can create valuable content and laugh and have fun with friends and connect with people. And everything in my setup is, like, preposterously affordable compared to what it used to be back in the day or even compared to what it was a year ago. So I think the level of accessibility and the easiness of it just continue it just continues to get more accessible, cheaper, easier for everyone to use, and more widely used. So now it's, you know, everyone has a podcast, and everyone is, you know, thinking about starting a YouTube channel, which I think is great. There's all these different niches. There's all these spaces that everyone can be in where you can still have an incredible audience and make an impact and, you know, and have a really incredible fun place to play, even if everyone's in this space. So I I think it's just gonna continue to become one part of a larger strategy. I think, you know, how people think about video in general is really shifting.

Katie Fawkes [00:36:19]:
Right? And so I I think we're not gonna have you know, we're in the space right now where it's like, well, this is a live show, and this is a podcast, and this is a video, and this is, like, you know and I think in, you know, even in a year or so, I think it's gonna become just content and just, you know, shows and things that we're doing. And there's just gonna be different ways that we can connect with people that is just gonna become kind of all different pieces in a larger puzzle that we have. So I it's a really cool space, and there's so much room and time for people to be here. So if you've been sitting on the fence, it's a great time. No one is gonna like, you will learn quickly. There are so many resources available. It's way cheaper than it ever was. It's way easier than it ever was.

Katie Fawkes [00:37:03]:
So it it's just a really great time to jump in.

Chris Stone [00:37:06]:
And it's fun. You know? I think yeah. And and I it's it's sometimes people get too like, let's not get too I think that's that was the the moment for me is, like, when Jim and I started doing this show. And, yes, we were screwing up. And, you know, and and, yes, things went wrong. But but we were constantly we make fun of each other all the time, you know, and and we we just have fun and do, you know, kinda stupid. Jim, actually, Katie, took his shirt off in one of our livestreams. I'm not even kidding.

Katie Fawkes [00:37:39]:
Jim. It

Jim Fuhs [00:37:41]:
it it was it was to support another Amazon creator.

Katie Fawkes [00:37:43]:
That's Oh, there you go. Yeah. You literally gave him the shirt off his back. I I feel it.

Chris Stone [00:37:49]:
It wasn't it wasn't like a story like that. It was something else, but I I digress. But I think, you know, when you do the the VHS club, podcast, which is awesome. You had Jeff c on, your most recent show. And I see you've got Jeff Dwoskin, that's coming up as well. Though that'll be an absolute fun show. I can't wait to to watch and listen to that. We've had both of those guys, on our show, and they're an absolute blast.

Chris Stone [00:38:12]:
So it sort of speaks to the fun. Right? It's like there are so many great thought leaders out there that I just, you know but it's like, maybe they're boring. Right? You know, it's just kind of like, I I let's have some fun here. Like, I'm sorry. There's no boring allowed on this show, but that's that's something that, you know I'm sorry. That's just me. But I wanted to know, speaking of fun, the VHS club podcast, what's your favorite movie from the nineties?

Katie Fawkes [00:38:38]:
Oh my gosh. I get this has been the defining question and moment of this show. I cannot answer this question. And the more that I do this show, the more I realize, like, the level of impact that movies have had on my life and the connection point that they are with people. Like, if you wanna do a wild thought exercise, ask people in your world what their favorite movie is. It never ceases to amaze me what people will say, or, you know, we have now have guests on often. And just, you know, I'm like, okay. What, like you were welcome to come out.

Katie Fawkes [00:39:13]:
What movie do you wanna talk about? And, like, the level of, like, excitement to, like, what movie do I like, what have you done? How can they it Yeah. There's it's just I How do you pick just one? Have a yeah. I know. How do you pick just one? And the moment that we review it or rewatch a movie, it triggers all these other movies that, like, you you know, every movie that you see, you're like, oh, now I've gotta watch this one again. And now I've gotta so, yeah, I don't know. I really struggle with that. I think I probably have about 10 to 15 of them fully memorized, which I feel like, you know, those are ones that I've

Chris Stone [00:39:48]:
The entire script. You can you've a movie full

Katie Fawkes [00:39:50]:
of Just about. Yeah. So I Really? There's a bunch of them that are just, like, iconic. I mean, I so I grew up with, like, family movie night going to Blockbuster. I worked at Blockbuster for years. No way. I have, like, a huge, huge movie collection myself. So I for me, it's just this, like, moment back in time where things were, like, simpler, and it just takes like, rewatching these movies just takes me back to those moments.

Katie Fawkes [00:40:17]:
And I love I just love having people on and hearing, like, their experiences with movies, particularly when when I haven't seen it. Like, last week, we had Jeff on, as you said, Jeff c. And he was like, let's do Innerspace. And I was like, yeah. And he's like, have you seen it? And I was like, I don't think so. Like, I and then I I recognized the cover, so I thought I had maybe had seen it, and then I started watching it. And I just I loved it. And watching it, like, through the lens of, like, this is the movie that Jeff really wanted to Yeah.

Katie Fawkes [00:40:45]:
For us to spend time talking about was also really fun, like, and hearing his story of why he wanted to watch that. I don't know. There's something, again, like, for lack of a better word, there's just something magical about movies because they they they connect us, and they they're visceral, like a smell or, like, a taste. They take you right back to that moment when you first saw it, if it's one that, obviously, one that connects with you. But, they're really hard to review, let me tell you. Whenever we do a rating system, and it's always like, well, five. Another five. Four point five.

Katie Fawkes [00:41:15]:
Five again.

Chris Stone [00:41:18]:
But It's almost like if there's a movie that's on that show, it can't not be a five. So you're not gonna give it, like, a, you know, negative Rotten Tomatoes score, remember, on there?

Katie Fawkes [00:41:27]:
Well, we did one. We brought on, some friends who also have a movie podcast, and they were like they're like, we're gonna review this. They they suggested a movie. And I I constantly it's one of those titles that's, like, forgettable too. Like, you can't nothing but trouble. The movie Nothing but Trouble, which is a terrible movie. I cannot recommend it. Okay.

Katie Fawkes [00:41:46]:
Okay. But it was really fun to it was really fun to watch because it was so bad. It was like a fever dream of, like, a weird cult. You're like, what is happening? And, so that one we rated poorly, but it was still a really fun watch. So part of it was like, well, this was really fun to to actually experience even though I would not ever recommend it as a great movie to watch or rewatch.

Chris Stone [00:42:09]:
Wow. Jim, do you have a favorite?

Jim Fuhs [00:42:12]:
Well, what what was funny, I just saw someone in the comments talked about breakfast club and, you know, to make to make me feel old. Well, one, my, my daughter, with my my grandson, that's a movie we like to watch together. But the time that that movie occurs in history was my senior year of high school, 1984. Yeah. Of course, you know, I can relate to everything that's going on in that high school. And, but, you know, it's kinda like I I get into a lot of the, like, what you call violent movies, whether it's Braveheart, but then I start thinking about things like, you know, Platoon and, you know but then there's, like, what, field of dreams.

Katie Fawkes [00:42:55]:
Oh, Jim. Awesome. Yeah. I'll be right back. Yeah. I was moving slow.

Chris Stone [00:43:01]:
Now so is the rule the rule is I thought it was nineties, but Interspace is, like, late eighties.

Katie Fawkes [00:43:08]:
No. So we, we're like we're like old school old school, quote, unquote, radio. We we do eighties, nineties, and today. Oh, tough. But, today. But we are making an exception this week. We are doing so we've done a couple of seventies movies. See, this is the fun of no rules.

Katie Fawkes [00:43:24]:
This is my show for fun, so there's no rules. So we we are doing Grease this week because we why not? We just have to. So so there are a couple of exceptions. And we did I think the original Halloween was, like, '79 or '78.

Jim Fuhs [00:43:38]:
Is is the original aliens also seventies, or was that Yeah.

Katie Fawkes [00:43:42]:
See, we have to do that. It might be it's right on that line. Yeah. So so we're, like, seventies to today, whatever today means. No new movies. No new movies, Azar.

Chris Stone [00:43:54]:
Yeah. There's there's a couple things that that cause people to go nuts in the chat. One of them is to talk about Ecamm fam, and the second one is to talk about favorite movies. So Right? Yeah. Note to self for next next time. Yeah. So, Matt's Matt's saying that, these are great movies too. 16 Candace, Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

Chris Stone [00:44:14]:
There's so many. Ferris Bueller's Day Off, I could probably quote

Katie Fawkes [00:44:17]:
pretty well

Chris Stone [00:44:18]:
and not not memorized. I don't know. Like, what are what are some of the movies that you've memorized, Katie?

Katie Fawkes [00:44:25]:
So Empire Records is one of my all time favorites. That was our first Great. That we did. I have that one fully memorized. That Thing You Do, I have fully memorized. Okay. Blue, clue is another favorite. Wow.

Katie Fawkes [00:44:36]:
Okay. Princess Bride. I don't know. I'm trying to think. There's a few more.

Chris Stone [00:44:41]:
There's, yeah, there's a lot of people that memorized Princess Bride.

Katie Fawkes [00:44:44]:
I'm constantly telling this makes me, like, a terrible parent, but there's a line in Princess Bride where he says something to the extent of, like, sleep sleep well, Wesley. I'll most likely kill you in the morning. And I for the longest time, I would say that to my kids at bedtime, and they probably had no idea where that was from. I'd be

Jim Fuhs [00:45:01]:
like They couldn't sleep.

Katie Fawkes [00:45:02]:
Almost let them kill you in the morning. And they'd, like, laugh. And then we finally watched the movie, and they were like, is that where this is from? I was like, yes. Not where this that's where this is from.

Chris Stone [00:45:12]:
Yep. Alright. So let's let's put it back on the rails, because we're talk we're talking to Katie Fox here, and, you I mean, just the story of how you sort of overcame perfectionism with live video, that live, video first framework. So this person, they know, okay. I see the value in doing this. I I I'll get a bunch of content that I can eventually work with. You know? But I think another thing that keeps people frozen when they actually start and they start doing these videos is the metrics and kind of, like, how many views and how many how many people are engaging and all these other things. When someone is, you know, in this for a little bit, what are the metrics they should be paying attention to versus the ones that keep them from continuing to create?

Katie Fawkes [00:46:02]:
Oh my gosh. It's it's hard. It's really hard. I like, I I struggle with a lot of that. I think if you're on YouTube, you know, the more that I get into it, the more I'm looking at the amount of live viewers, the amount of concurrent live viewers, the click through rate, so, like, how many people actually clicking through and watching. Yeah. I I really try to not, like, take that as the kind of be all and end all for for what you're trying to accomplish because there's so many numbers that are hidden behind that. I will say, like so for the VHS club, again, it was just for fun.

Katie Fawkes [00:46:44]:
I started assuming literally no one would come. I was like, this is me just hanging out with my best friend. We're I'm practicing. I'm getting better at Ecamm. I'm learning a lot about YouTube. Like, I'm just this is a passion fun project. And I I would talk about it on my, you know, personal Facebook or, you know, with friends or whatever. And I started noticing that people who were, like, acquaintances from high school or, you know, peep neighbors would be like, oh, well, like, I, are you heading home for your podcast? It's Thursday.

Katie Fawkes [00:47:15]:
Wonderful.

Chris Stone [00:47:15]:
Like, a, like, do you

Katie Fawkes [00:47:16]:
know that I have a podcast? B, like, how did you know it was Thursday? Or, like, they would start sending me forwarding me, like, you know, nineties movie references or be like, oh, I was in, like, the store the other day, and I saw, like, this, you know, this thing that was you know, that I thought you might like. So I think more people are paying attention than what the metrics show. So, you know, not all of those people are regular viewers of my show, but they know I have a show, and, you know, and they are likely to to tune in at some point. Maybe they're not watching every episode. Maybe they're listening and not watching. Maybe they're, you know, they're in the live audience and they never rewatch. Maybe if I brought them on as a guest, you know, they would bring a huge so they're I think I think those numbers are somewhat fake. Just so they're I mean, we call them vanity metrics for a reason.

Katie Fawkes [00:48:04]:
So don't let them get you down. They're a great they're a great thing to keep, you know, to keep general tabs on, but that's not a full, you know, a full story of what you're accomplishing. And you need to have a bigger goal beyond that. I you know? Yes. 30 incredible followers, 50 incredible followers, a hundred incredible followers, people who are willing to sign up for your emails, people who will get on a call with you, will, you know, will answer your DMs. The, like, the the impact that those people have, it goes well beyond the amount of them that exists. Like, it it really does make a big difference. I can do a lot with 20 people that show up in a live stream, way more than, you know, than someone who has a hundred thousand views on their video, but those are just passive people that have stopped by at one point and something caught interest.

Katie Fawkes [00:48:51]:
Right? Whereas my 20 will show up to every single video that I'm on and will give me feedback and will buy things that I tell them are, you know, great tools. There's a a relationship there. There's a trust there. There's a community there. So Yeah. I think we need to stop chasing vanity metrics. We need to stop chasing, like, audience, and we need to think about it as your community. Like, we're we are building something bigger than just the numbers.

Katie Fawkes [00:49:14]:
You are building relationships. You're building trust. And, like, once you have that, then everything else that you're looking for is gonna follow on its own. That's what you need to focus on is those relationships. They really they really, really make a difference, like, across the board. I cannot say that enough.

Jim Fuhs [00:49:30]:
And when you say that

Chris Stone [00:49:32]:
they're showing up, they are absolutely showing up. Sorry, Jim. And and Marylou, just wanted to say that that that's the way to, keep the kids.

Katie Fawkes [00:49:41]:
Right in your children. Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:49:42]:
Yes. Exactly.

Katie Fawkes [00:49:43]:
There's your lessons with Katie.

Jim Fuhs [00:49:44]:
Yeah. Now, Katie, you mentioned earlier and, you know, because we Chris, I don't think we've had the AI question for for this episode. So Uh-oh. We'll bring that in.

Chris Stone [00:49:52]:
Put your robot helmets on.

Jim Fuhs [00:49:54]:
Writing and, you know, you've talked about live video. How do you how are you using AI with your live streaming?

Katie Fawkes [00:50:04]:
All the time. It's my it's my best friend. So I use AI for, planning. So, like, outlining, thinking through topic ideas, bouncing literally just bouncing ideas off of it for, you know, for the most part. Like, hey. You know, I, you know, I'm bringing Jeff C on for my show, and he really wants to talk about inner space. Like, you know, I'm thinking that we'll talk about these kinds of things. What are some great social media posts that I can line up as I'm getting ready for the audience? You know, I don't want all of them to be a hard sell.

Katie Fawkes [00:50:36]:
What, you know, what are some that can just build excitement? I have it help me write my YouTube titles and descriptions. I ask for advice on the thumbnails I'm creating. I'm like, okay. I don't wanna use more than, like, two words in my, you know, my YouTube thumbnail. So, you know, the show is about this. What are the two words I can put in here? What are the keywords? I I mean, honestly, every part in the process that is not me recording is supported by AI. So all of the planning that goes into it, and then I take all that, I put that in Ecamm, build it all out, and then when I'm ready to go, I go. And then on the other side, I send it my videos through Opus to clip everything up for me, and I share those clips out.

Katie Fawkes [00:51:18]:
I'm using tools I mean, like, Captcha is another one I use often where, like, I can drop my video in, and it gives me social posts that are, like, curated and go in a particular order to kind of build momentum up for that video. Yeah. I every more and more every day, I'm like, anything that is gonna save me time and get my content out to the audience that needs to hear it, and anything that allows me to continue to focus on what matters, which is the connection and the people and the being present on video, which AI is not good at. I'm better at. So Right. So all the other stuff on the other side, on both sides of it. So

Chris Stone [00:51:55]:
I love I love how tactical you are because, you know, you are someone that I consider, you know, authentic, real. You're doing live video, but you're you're unapologetic about your use of AI. And it's not just because, hey. I don't wanna do this stuff. Right? You want to focus on the stuff that you're primarily passionate and you know you're the best at. Yeah. And, I love it. And I know you're not just rubber stamping that content out.

Chris Stone [00:52:21]:
You're like, you're you're in you're inserting Katie Fox in this. You're not just, like, throwing whatever AI, gives you because we found out, it lies to us even more than Jim lies to me. You know what?

Katie Fawkes [00:52:36]:
I so I was talking with Alec after his event that we were talking about earlier in this episode, and one thing that he said that I hadn't thought of and I immediately tried myself was, you know, he had asked AI what, what he was missing. So, like, you know, here are all the different things that I'm doing, what am I missing, and what can I do better, kind of to be, like, a constructive criticism sounding board, which I like, everyone's like, oh, we take constructive criticism really well? I don't. I, like, I I like to be right. I like, like, I don't I don't do well with it. I just wanna win. So for so for me, I don't I wish I was better at it. But there's something about, like, asking AI some of those questions, which is great for someone like me because it's not a person. So I can't get frustrated at it.

Katie Fawkes [00:53:21]:
It's like it's taking a look at everything, and it's like, here are the holes. I'm like, yep. You're right. Like, I could fill some of those gaps in. And then it helps me take some of those things and turn them into great ideas, like, because I know what my bigger vision is or what my mission is. So, again, it's just like a really great sounding board, and that was one of those ideas that I never would have thought of, and it, like, has helped a ton. Like, I I now have, I think, three or four different ideas in the last couple weeks that I've been working on that were a direct result of what am I not doing, or what am I doing really badly that I need to be doing differently? And it outlined those things, and, you know, now I'm able to get them into queue or figure out, like, what you know, which of them will have the biggest impact or which I wanna tackle first and and how to tackle them. So huge shout out to Alec.

Katie Fawkes [00:54:06]:
I never would have thought of it that way. But that's another great thing that, especially for people who, like, do sometimes take things personally. Like, you can't really take it personally when it's not a person, so it went it went a long way for me on that.

Chris Stone [00:54:19]:
Yeah. I mean, obviously, getting off the blank page and using it using it to just to launch you, to keep you creating. I think that's that's a great way to kinda end today is that, you know, whatever is preventing you from creating. And if it's fear of camera, Katie just gave you all the blueprint for it and and why you should be, you know, looking at potentially doing live first. You don't have to do live first. You know? You don't you don't have to do video for your podcast, but you should. No. You know? Because It's more fun.

Chris Stone [00:54:52]:
It's more fun. And and you do get found more. I don't know. It's proven. But, you know, I I just I love how that's just been woven through this whole conversation. Katie, thank you again. Oh, that's fantastic. For being on the show.

Chris Stone [00:55:05]:
And, you know, here we are talking so much about, you know, nineties movies. We've yet to, like, talk about, you know, Ecamm, which you can find at Ecamm.com, or you can type in Ecamm.castahead.net because somebody has got an affiliate link, that you can click. Click that one.

Katie Fawkes [00:55:24]:
That's a better link.

Chris Stone [00:55:26]:
And, of course, go to the YouTube channel. It's at Ecamm Live. This is a just a a brilliant channel, and it's and it's really curated so very well. So if you're just starting out, you can go to a spot. They've got courses. I just, you know, started powering through, Fulgent and Anna's course on on Awesome. Production all this free stuff that's available, to you that's on both their site and their YouTube channel. And, of course, make sure that, that you go over and watch the VHS club, and you'll be able to see Jeff See and his big bearded greatness talk about, Interspace with, with Katie.

Chris Stone [00:56:08]:
And I can't wait to see Jeff Dwoskin. When is that show coming up?

Katie Fawkes [00:56:12]:
Thursday. We joke that we we're on most Thursday nights at 9PM eastern, so we don't hit every Thursday night. We're we're solidly most Thursday nights.

Jim Fuhs [00:56:21]:
Most Thursday.

Katie Fawkes [00:56:22]:
Yes. This this upcoming Thursday at 9PM. If you wanna hang out with us live, otherwise, the episode following usually Friday morning, I drop it, and then it's, it's, out across all the different podcast players out on YouTube. But but it's more fun live, so come hang out in the live studio audience and answer, answer all of our questions and give your feedback and your ratings and hang out with us. It's fun.

Chris Stone [00:56:42]:
Awesome. Thank you everybody who has joined us today in the chat. There's too many of you to name. I hope I didn't miss anybody. Oh, Doug Layman, breaking it down in Layman's terms, says Truck Turner Isaac Hayes seventy. So that I I guess that's a movie. I've never even heard of it.

Katie Fawkes [00:56:59]:
I'm in. Truck Turner is

Chris Stone [00:57:01]:
a great name for a band. It is a

Katie Fawkes [00:57:03]:
great band name.

Chris Stone [00:57:04]:
Movie Isaac Hayes sang for truck. No. This is probably a movie. So, anyway, thanks again, Katie. And, to everyone else, as always, don't fear the gear.